INT:
When you think of Brooklyn Ascend, what comes to mind?
R:
The first thing that comes to mind is that I am so happy I'm not there.
INT:
Is there an image that you end up with?
R:
Yeah. The image that comes to
mind is this kid with their mouth closed, with their hands by their side, and
really not looking happy. There wasn't a
lot of happiness there. The image that
comes to mind is kids with either their hands folded, or their hands by their
side, with their mouth shut. Also,
really unhappy teachers. I have a lot of
images in my head. I should have picked
up on that, and I wish I had picked up on that before I ever started working
there. The teachers at that school,
everybody just seemed annoyed and frustrated all the time. There was so much scowling. I got the impression that the kids were
pests. That's what comes to mind. Scowling teachers, and silent kids.
INT:
Do you ever dream about it?
R:
Yeah. The dreams I have are
good. The dreams I have are me finally
saying the things to my higher ups that I never got to say.
INT:
You're having healthy dreams.
R:
I think so. I think that they're
healthy dreams. For a while, they
weren't. I'll tell you that I remember
the day that we had to go back to school after April break. I didn't sleep the entire night before. When I got to school, I found out that
neither had either of the two female teachers that I worked with. That can't be healthy that none of us can
sleep, literally the entire night before they had school. I remember just tossing and turning. I remember when I got there, this feeling,
this lump in my throat. This feeling of
how am I going to make it? I felt like I
was being asked to be a referee, or a cop.
I didn't feel like I was a teacher at all. We watched some European championship soccer
game. I remember watching the referees. There
was so much pressure to "catch" the kids. Catch them whispering. Catch them doing this. Catch them doing that. It was exhausting. It was all about catching them. One of Doug Lemov's ideas is that if you
don't have one hundred percent compliance, one hundred percent authority, then
other things will think they can question.
There's something to that, maybe, but I think that that idea just got
taken way, way too far at the school I was at.
If a kid even giggles. The kids
weren't even allowed to giggle. If a
student giggled too loud, we had to mark it down that they were being
disruptive. If I'm reading a story
aloud, I'm okay with my kids giggling every now and then. That's what kids do. That shows that they're listening. It shows they're interested. We had to mark it because any little
misbehavior was a threat to the one hundred percent authority, and one hundred
percent compliance. It was just so
exhausting, and it left no time. I was
there for a year, and I feel like I never got know the kids. Whereas compared to where I was before, I
still hear from them. I still miss
them. I still think about them.
Whereas these kids, I barely know
them because they had to be silent the entire year. I didn't like the relationship that I had,
the way I was forced to treat them. The
way I felt like I had to act towards them.
It was so inauthentic. If you
can't tell, I just really hated it. I
just really hated it. The thing that I
can't stand the most is that I feel like people are being fooled right
now. These schools are being touted as
the solution and it's these movies like Waiting
for Superman and my parents have seen it.
Isn't this so wonderful? Wait a
second. Why isn't anybody asking what's
actually happening? That's the way I
feel about that.
INT:
Your voice is going to be heard.
R:
I hope. I really hope. I'd like to do whatever I could to do
something. I'm actually really looking
forward to this rally at the end of July.
INT:
Yes. All of us are looking
forward to it. If you were in charge of
changing this school, what would you alter?
R:
If I were in changing it?
INT:
Yeah. If you were put in charge
of making the changes that you would like to see at this school, what would you
do?
R:
One of the first things I would do if I could, obviously this is a
dream, but I would make the sizes of the classes smaller. Thirty eight year olds sitting in rows in one
class is way too much. I would
definitely make the classes smaller.
Even if it's twenty kids. Four
classes of twenty kids. I would have the
kids sit in groups rather than have them sit in rows. I would have to be concerned about the
results of the state tests, but I don't think I would use that for the basis of
everything we teach them. I would
encourage teachers to use what they know about how to assess kids, and how to
get to know kids. I would encourage
teachers to actually form relationships with their kids to find out what's
going to work best for them. I would
completely change the curriculum. I
wouldn't use what they use at the school we have right now. The use at Brooklyn Ascend what's called SABIS. It's something that was developed in Lebanon. It's this curriculum that suits very well the
I Do, You Do, We Do format. I'd get rid
of that.
I'm much fonder of curriculums that
actually have kids asking questions, and doing a lot more writing. That's another thing I didn't mention. We didn't do any, any writing. No creative writing. No open response writing. No journaling. That's something for me that's so
important. With writing, kids learn
about the mechanics and stuff of the language, but they also learn how to find
their own voice. They learn how to
express themselves. They learn how to
interact with others through writing. We
didn't do any of that. It killed
me. I'd definitely institute a writer’s
workshop during the day. That was
something I did at my old school that, to me, was one of the most valuable
things we did. I'd have us do that. Is getting rid of the state exams an option,
or is that not a choice?
INT:
It's your redesign.
R:
If I could get rid of those, then I really would. I would find teachers that I trusted, and
that I knew cared as much about the kids as I do, and that were smart. They would preferably have Masters in
Education.
INT:
Let me ask you this. What makes a
good Ascend teacher? What makes a
teacher who really thrives in that environment?
R:
Not me, that's for sure. The
one's that seemed to get the least grief were the first year teachers. We had a pretty big number of Teach for
America grads, or Teach for America first year teachers. Those are the people who got the least grief
because they didn't have any basis on which they would be asking
questions. They'd follow directions, and
they did what they were told. If they
had to read a script that says, "Now watch while I show you how to do
this," then they'd do it. Which, my
first year of teaching, I might have been grateful to have that because I was
lost, and didn't know what to do.
You have to be good at following
rules. You asked how I've changed
professionally or personally. I've
certainly learned one thing about myself.
Following very scripted, structured rules is not one of my
strengths. Definitely not one of my
strengths. The teacher who yelled at me
to get out of her room, it baffled me that somebody could spend so much time
with kids, and call themselves a teacher, but not be looking into what was
actually happening, or asking, "Why are we going to do that?" Once it started to feel like things were not
right, I got the book that the President of the school, Stephen Wilson, had
written, called Learning on the Job: When
Business Takes on Public Schools. And
it was kind of my first time about hearing and thinking about this idea of
business and public schools, and how this school really was trying to run
itself like a business and like a corporation.
I didn't understand why other people weren't talking about that, and
weren't reading it, and why I was the only one that had ordered the book. One thing that blew my mind is that I got
this book that Steven Wilson had written, and who has a chapter about these
genius curriculums that are going to make it so that it doesn't matter if
teachers are idiots. They can still do
it. One of them is the SABIS thing. SABIS has this brilliant concept of having
prefects. The prefects are the four or
five best performing scholars in a class, they check the rest of the kids'
work. Rather than having to hire an
instructional aide, or having smaller classrooms, the teachers have the four
kids. They finish the work real quick,
and that fast, and then they go around the room checking other kids' work. It's in the book. It says it's possibly that this is to cut
costs.
After I read that, I went into school
and I was, "Did you guys know this?
Did you know that that's what this prefect thing is about?" Nobody wanted to listen. They were, "No. It's because of the good instructional
strategy." "Really? Because I think that these kids should
probably be getting to do more challenging work." I remember when I was in third grade, I did
really well. I got good grade. My teacher, Mr. Carey, sent me to the library
and I got to do my own research project.
Why aren't these kids allowed to do that? Why are we using them as a substitute for
instructional aides in order to cut costs?
It blew my mind. This was the beginning of the unraveling for
me, when I started to really look into things.
That was how I came across the Schools Matter blog, was because I was on
line being like, "What's the deal with these charter schools anyway? Whose idea was this?" I guess I found out a lot that really made it
hard to be there.
INT:
It sounds like it took quite a sacrifice for this lesson that you
learned. It sounds like the veils had
fallen away from your eyes in some way.
R:
Yeah. Definitely. Maybe I had to have this experience in order
to realize that. Now I'm going to be
more cheerful in general. Also, do my
homework before I go to work anywhere. I
wish I had done that before. That's part
of what makes me angry.
INT:
Do not censor yourself here. This
is your opportunity to say what you feel, and to get it off your chest. A couple of other questions I'd like to ask
you. One is what was your high point and
your low point when you were teaching there?
R:
The high point was right at first, when I was doing what they told me I
was going to be doing. When I was taking
out small groups, and doing what I had spent the past three years learning how
to do. Getting to know their learning
needs. Designing activities that were
really going to help them. Getting to
know a new group of kids. I love getting
to know kids.
The low point came the end of
January, maybe. All we were doing was
teaching these test prep lessons. It was
all we were allowed to do. There was one
time when I had to put up an overhead on the overhead projector. It was one of these "let me show you how
to do this, then you're going to do it."
I looked around the room at the kids.
INT:
You just started talking about your low point.
R: . . . The low point was sometime
in January. Starting from Christmas
break onwards, you were only to teach these test prep lessons that I had
nothing to do with. I had no business in
deciding how we were going to teach these, or what we were going to teach. I was really just administering what they had
given me. I just remember one morning
putting the projector on, and putting the overhead, and looking around the
room. I had one kid falling asleep. They just looked miserable. They looked bored. I was miserable. I was bored.
I remember just feeling like I can't teach this lesson right now. I remember turning the overhead off. We need to do something that actually
matters, that's actually going to get these kids going. I don't remember what we did, but it was this
sense of I can't do this. This is not
fair to them. It was just so clearly all
the way through, not about the kids. It
was so blatantly obvious that it was about the scores that they were going to
get on these tests. We weren't teaching
writing. We weren't giving them any time
that they needed to rest.
All the conversation we'd have during
our meetings was about had they mastered this concept? It's going to be on the state exam. This concept might be on the state exam. When they ended up taking the state exam, I
don't know how they did. I remember
there were certain questions that asked them to use the concepts that we had
tried to teach them. We basically were
teaching them these tricks and formulas.
I remember one was number patterns.
We had to teach them very explicitly the way to find the answer to a
number problem problem. A number problem
question is you have a series of numbers like four, eight, twelve,
sixteen. What's the next number? The way to find it is you had to teach them
step by step, follow what I do. Step
one. Look at the first two numbers. Step two.
Find the difference between the first two numbers. Step three.
Write down the rule. Step
four. Apply the rule to the final
number. Let's say the rule we figured
out was add four. That was how they had
to go about doing it every time. They
got to the state exam, and I remember the question was two, four, eight,
basically it was multiplying by two so it didn't work to use that formula. You'd just subtract the first two numbers. My kids, at least, they had no idea what to
do because they didn't know the concept.
They didn't know the idea of what it meant to look for a pattern. All they knew was this formula.
To me it was of course they got that
one wrong. The formula is not going to
work all the time. That's how math
works. Sometimes you have to be able to
look into it, and think critically about it.
[Sighs] There were a lot of low points.
There was a low point where this little boy, K_____, got suspended for
the fourth time. He just wasn't that
bad. I had seen kids in the Bronx that
were bad, that got in fights, and they were disrespectful. [K_____] wasn't like that. This little boy was just a busy body. He tapped his feet all the time. He would make these little humming noises
while he worked. He was really
bright. He was really sweet. Because we had this very rigid behavior
system that we absolutely had to stick to, we had to mark every time he
talked. We had to mark every time he
turned around in his seat. He had to go
the Dean. It broke my heart because this
poor kid basically lost the majority of his third grade year. He didn't have to. If we had been teachers that were allowed to
actually teach, and actually allowed to do at least what I learned how to do
when I got my Masters in Education, then when I did my first three years.
Actually really get to know a kid,
and really figure out what's going to work for them, he could've been
fine. Even if seventy five percent of
Brooklyn Ascend scholars passed the state test, I can tell you for a fact that
there were some of them who we, personally, completely failed. Completely and utterly failed them because we
did nothing for them, because they didn't fit this total compliance model. They got completely left behind. That's one thing that I wish I'd thought more
about. I was a special education teacher
to start out, so I have a special place in my heart for these special education
kids. That's what I'm most passionate
about, and most committed to. A school
like Brooklyn Ascend, maybe it does work for the kids who can do it, the kids
who can keep their hands still, and who tend to sit and nod, and say things
back. It doesn't work for the kids who
have learning disabilities, or have special education needs. It just doesn't.
I had another little girl in my
class. To me it was just blatantly
obvious that she had dyslexia. She would
flip her numbers. She would flip her
words. There was nothing I could
do. She had to go through the exact same
structure, exact same I Do, We Do, You Do lessons, with the same worksheets,
and the same thing as everybody else.
She'll probably get left back.
She's probably going to have to repeat third grade. That's another thing at Brooklyn Ascend is
that they're very proud of the fact that they don't do social promotions. Very proud of the fact that if the kid
doesn't meet the cut off, that they have to repeat the grade.
INT:
How many third graders do you think repeated this year?
R:
I don't know how many will end up doing it. I can tell you that in the class that I
taught for thirty kids, all but three of them we labeled them as promotion in
doubt because of the results on their mock test scores, and that type of
thing. I would really doubt that they
would hold back that many kids, because that in and of itself isn't going to
look very good if they have a third of the class staying back. I wouldn't be surprised if at least ten,
maybe sixteen end up having to repeat third grade.
INT:
Thirty to fifty percent?
R:
I would say that. If they
actually end up doing it. I don't know
if they ended up doing it. Another
little anecdote. Another low point for
me was the day after Osama Bin Laden got shot and killed. This was something that at my old class up in
the Bronx, we would have taken a few minutes in the morning to talk about
it. It was all over the news. Everybody had seen it. The kids want to know what's going on. Who was this guy? Why is this everywhere? Why is this everywhere I look? It would have been something we would have
talked about. I probably would have had
them journal about it, and maybe even later in the day gone and get a map of
Afghanistan and talk about that. I would
have found ways to connect it. I'm not
going to just waste the day chit chatting.
It's important. To me, it's
important that a kid knows what's going on around them.
Because our day was so structured,
and there was no time for anything except for these structured I Do, You Do, We
Do lessons, there was no chance for them to ask about it. I remember it was ten days later. Maybe even longer. I think it was ten days, almost two weeks,
when one my little girls raised her hand.
I had to sit down and crouch beside her.
She was, "Who is this guy, Osama Bin Laden?" "That's a really good question. We should really talk about that, if I have a
chance to talk about it." We never
had a chance to talk about it. These
kids have these questions, because they're kids. They have questions, and they're not being
allowed to ask them. All in this name of
getting to pass these tests. I'm a
little bit worried that they did pass them, because then is Brooklyn Ascend
going to be held up as another one of "look at how great, we're closing
the achievement gap." . . . .
R:
Right now, I think I've said as much as I can think of. That's mostly my story of what happened at
Brooklyn Ascend.
. . . .There's another thing that
bothered me at Brooklyn Ascend. I'm
pretty liberal with my views about language and how people use language. I took a socio-linguistics class at Teachers
College, and we would actually recording kids talking, and analyze their speech
patterns. I'm a really big believer that
the way we speak isn't better, and isn't superior, it's just the way people in
power speak. When I taught in my old
school, my kids would speak the way they spoke, and I'd speak the way I
speak. I would try to have conversations
about how people talk in different situations.
I tried to teach them this is the way you're going to want to speak in
this situation. I not only valued, but
really admired a lot of the ways that they used language. At Brooklyn Ascend, any time a kid would say
something that wasn't in proper English, we would have to stop them and say,
"Rephrase that." We'd have to
make them rephrase it until they said it in a way that was right, because Doug
Lemov has got a chapter of "Right is Right." There's a right way to say things, and a
right way to do things. All, to me,
stripping them of their identity, and stripping them of any power or voice that
they have, and saying that "you've got to do this our way."
R:
If you want to take anything, I'm giving you my permission. Anything I have written or said, whatever you
want to do with it, I grant you permission.
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