A former KIPP student that I will refer to as Kayla contacted me in late February of this year. She wanted to tell her story of sexual abuse at the hands of KIPP orchestra teacher, Charles Randall in the late 1990s. What resulted was a multi-part in-depth interview that readers will find posted below in its entirety.
Kayla was a student in first class of KIPP Academy, the Bronx, and she graduated from KIPP in 2000. In order to understand and appreciate the gravity of the sexual abuse and emotional abuse allegations set forth in her interview, let me introduce the adults who are central to this part of Kayla's story.
From Schools Matter, March 11, 2024:
Straight out of undergraduate school and fresh from two year stints with Teach for America (TFA), Mike Feinberg and David Levin found themselves in 1994 running their own school program in an elementary school in Houston, TX. They called their new program KIPP (Knowledge is Power Program), and with the help of the rich white elites who were bankrolling TFA, Levin and Feinberg quickly became media darlings and corporate America's next great white hopes for solving the urban "Negro problem" that white philanthropists had fretted about since Emancipation.
The next year KIPP Houston became a separate school under the direction of Mike Feinberg, while David Levin was handed his own school program in New York City, where the white, privileged, and fresh-faced Yale graduate found himself face-to-face with Bronx indigenous cultures entirely foreign to Levin and the other white teachers who were hired to build the first KIPP franchise beyond Houston.
Hoping to garner public attention to KIPP's program, Levin and the NYC Board of Education brought in the renowned school orchestra director, Charlie Randall, who gained fame from his work at a neighboring school in the Bronx, I.S.166. Randall, who had been a music teacher since the early 70s and the founding director of the I.S.166 orchestra since 1980, brought Levin a skill set that he would desperately need in order to make it in the Bronx. Randall brought PR skills, charisma, street savvy, and local knowledge that Levin did not have and that he came to depend upon in his new position of leadership.
Charlie Randall also brought with him an attraction to middle school girls, as well as a bad drinking problem. According to allegations from an anonymous source interviewed by Gary Rubenstein, Randall openly engaged in lascivious behavior among KIPP students, behavior that would have gotten him fired and reported to authorities under normal circumstances. Instead, KIPP eventually promoted Randall and put him in charge of starting orchestra programs at other KIPP schools around the country. According to Rubenstein,
[t]he source, claiming to have firsthand knowledge, alleges that multiple witnesses, including numerous KIPP teachers and leaders, observed Charles Randall’s misconduct but did not report the egregious behavior exhibited by both Randall and Jesus Concepcion.
One account from the source states, “Randall would frequently arrive at school intoxicated. He kept a bottle of Johnnie Walker Black in the orchestra room and even offered us shots.” Additionally, the source mentioned, “He would often make sexually suggestive remarks about our bodies, accompanied by licking his lips, and the teachers witnessed this behavior but never intervened. It seemed as though no one cared until he began harassing the teachers. It was only then that he was eventually removed from KIPP Academy and reassigned to a national position.”
Former KIPP student, Kayla, talks about the arrival of renowned school orchestra teacher, Charlie Randall, whose knowledge of the community and its cultures became an invaluable asset to David Levin.
Charlie Randall brought skills that earned him a free pass from professional, legal, and ethical expectations that govern the conduct of other employees of the New York City Department of Education (NYCDOE), which retained responsibility for KIPP school oversight and governance until 1998--when the state legislature passed the New York Charter Schools Act of 1998.
During those early years when Charlie Randall's musical prowess was putting KIPP on the media map, as well as garnering the valuable attention of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and Gap, Inc., we find out that Levin is alleged to have ignored obvious indications of child sexual exploitation, rather than protecting the vulnerable children that he gave lip service to protecting and serving.
Kayla offers a compelling case that other teachers, including co-founder, David Levin, were aware that orchestra teacher, Charlie Randall, was consistently and repeatedly inappropriate with female students and that Randall was sometimes drunk on the job.
After covering some preliminaries, my interview with Kayla began thusly:
I: Okay, we are recording.
A: I want to start by expressing my genuine appreciation for KIPP. If it weren't for KIPP, I wouldn't be where I am today. Your article about students having to earn their desk rather than being given one really struck a chord with me. It highlighted the importance of earning things in life, a perspective I've always carried, especially growing up in the South Bronx where nothing was handed to me. KIPP instilled in me a sense of grit that I'm grateful for to this day.
I would compare my relationship with KIPP to that of an abusive caregiver—sometimes supportive, sometimes harmful. As an adult, I can appreciate the positive impact KIPP had on me, but I also bear scars and unresolved emotional and mental health issues from my time there. Despite approaching my big age, I'm still grappling with these challenges. Having children of my own has provided me with a new perspective.
I recall a conversation a few years ago with a former teacher where I downplayed the significance of certain experiences with what I experienced at KIPP, brushing them off as not a big deal. However, their question about how I would feel if someone did those things to my own children made me confront the gravity of what I went through. It shook me to my core and forced me to reevaluate my feelings.
In essence, I struggled to reconcile the trust I placed in teachers at KIPP with the possibility of them harming my own children. It made me realize that what I experienced wasn't okay or normal, despite my previous attempts to rationalize it. Does that make sense?
I: Yes, it does make sense.
A: And I feel like a waterfall of emotions just unleashed a couple of years ago, because I said, damn, what happened to me really was fucked up, like really messed up, and it wasn’t just that it was really messed up, but it was Levin’s part in it. I think that's the part that never gets talked about enough. I think that Feinberg was held accountable for his actions, and I think that Levin has gotten to sort of skate under the radar with no accountability. And I always wonder if this kind of stuff keeps him up at night or if he feels any kind of accountability to not just me, but all the people who suffer with her mental and emotional health because they were sexually abused at KIPP.
And I’ll make it clear that Levin has never touched anyone, and I know that for a fact. No one has ever said that he has, but what we all will say is that he knew what was going on. He may not have known the extent of what was going on, but a teacher licking his lips and saying how curvy we were and how pretty we were and if we were older these are things he would do—and he would say that stuff in front of Levin, and Levin would always look the other way.
And it was like Levin was the one even before Randall came to our school, Levin was the one who came to our homes, Levin was the one who came for our parents, Levin was the one who sat down with us and our parents and made us sign Commitment to Excellence forms, and like we made a promise to KIPP and KIPP made a promise to us. And that’s what makes KIPP so different from every other school that I have ever been to. Levin made a commitment to being there and protecting us. I don’t know if you have ever seen a KIPP Commitment to Excellence form, but it was a commitment, just like when you get married, right, you sign that piece of paper, that commits you to someone other.
I: A contract?
A: Yeah, a contract. Levin made us sign that same thing, so for us to sign this form and to see KIPP be as big as it is, and it feels like there was no reciprocation in terms of, in terms of a lot of things, in terms of the kids who grew up to be adults and teachers—we only have one who has become an actual principal, for the lack of opportunity. And then really allowing abuse to happen, both sexual abuse, and mental and emotional abuse. When I say mental and emotional abuse, colorism was a huge thing at KIPP, a huge thing. When I say a huge thing, I always felt so bad for the kids who were dark and they were treated a different way, and that's not just Levin or Randall, it was specifically by the white teachers—they were the worst culprits. Randall wasn’t nice to the dark girls either.
KIPP was just a very, a hot bed of all things wrong with education, but they get lauded for all things right. And the only way that I can compare it is like when someone abusive passes away, right? But that person was a pillar in the community. When they die, everyone tells talks about how great they are and the victim? The victim gets minimized.
I feel the same way when I think about KIPP. Like they did all of these weird really twisted things to a whole lot of black and brown children, but then it’s traumatizing to always see them [KIPP] in the news or on social media as being this maven of charter schools, this beacon of education. It's just a hard place to be because it's so hard to reconcile who you are, how you feel, with the tragedy that was your childhood, and just try to figure it all out as an adult.
I: Can you tell me when you were a student at KIPP?
A:From the 90s to the early 2000s.
I: So that must've been right after Levin came to New York and started the school.
A: I was in the founding classes.
I: So that was a grades five through eight school?
A: KIPP was just starting so it was one class at a time. [New KIPP schools began one grade at a time and added a grade each year]:
I: Now this, Mr. Randall that you talked about in our initial conversation, can you tell me how Randall came into the picture and what his relationship was with David Levin?
A: So Randall came in about 3 years after KIPP Bronx was founded. I believe we started playing our instruments in the sixth grade. Randall came from I.S. 166. Randall was the best musical instructor in the state of New York if not beyond, like he is a musical savant and genius. And what he was lauded for, was being able to teach black children, black and brown children, how to play music.
So Randall came in and was able to do a couple of things for Levin. He came in and gave Levin some swag. Randall gave Levin the ability to talk to black people and Spanish people, not from a place of authority, but from a place I guess of love and understanding. Randall was actually sent in to mentor us, and he mentored Levin. And to really speak to us in a way that Levin could not speak to us or that Corchran, who was also white, couldn’t speak to us.
And then he came in and taught us music, and the music program is what got KIPP on 60 Minutes and in front of Oprah, and that check from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, and Gap, and all those things. So it was the music program that catapulted Kipp. So that was a promise that Randall made to Levin, it was like we will make sure KIPP grows into this really big thing, the music program is at the center of KIPP, and on top of that, we will give more structure to the school—you guys have the academics, but you do not know how to talk to black people. You don't really know how to come to the hood and talk to these people.
So that's what Randall did, and so Randall became Levin’s mentor.
I: Now, do you know if it was Randall who approached Levin or Levin who approached to Randall, or if someone else introduced them.
A: You know I am not sure, I was 11 years old at the time. It was just that Randall is here, and I was told that Randall is going to be my counselor.
I: So you were 11 years old, and he was going to be your counselor. Was he at the school full time, or was he there just part-time, or did you know?
A: Full time.
I: So he was a counselor as well as a music teacher?
A: Yes.
I: Can you talk about your experience with Mr. Randall as your counselor?
A:At first, it was a really positive experience, because I had a whole lot of shit going on at home. My home situation was terrible, and so Randall became like a grandfather to me very quickly—giving me money, buying me things, just talking to me about my problems, how things are going, giving me advice, but importantly, just giving me hope. Because if there is one thing that I lacked, was hope in my situation, and he gave me so much of that. So that was one thing that I really appreciated about Randall.
I: And he was African-American, is that right?
A: Yes.
I: So it looked positive in the beginning, and was he also your music teacher?
A:He was everyone's music teacher.
I: Do you know how long he was at KIPP, at that particular school?
A: Around 2004
I: Do you know why he left?
A: because he got too many complaints about being fresh with teachers and students.
I: But there was nothing about a detailed kind of scandal involving him and students and or teachers?
A: By then, there was a big scandal with him and Sara Martinez.
I: Sara Martinez?
A: Sara was was the loudest. She was like, look, this man molested me, my mental health is suffering, and I need KIPP to address it.
I: And how old was she when she came forward?
A: We were teenagers—I want to say she started doing it when she was a teenager, 15 or 16, somewhere in there. By then, I spearated myself- started living my own life outside of KIPP. But I remember when she started doing it. And what happened was, she started talking to everyone about it, talking to Levin, to Mr. Martinez [gym teacher], Mr. Myers. She would talk to anyone who would listen, and they just kept shooing her away and making her feel like an outcast. Eventually, when the story started hitting the newspapers, maybe like 2019, sometime around there, when the story started hitting the newspapers, as Jane Doe from KIPP and sexual harassment, and all these stories, they fired Mr. Martinez and said that Martinez had a duty to report. And Martinez said, I did report, and you guys didn't do anything about it. Not only did you guys not do anything about it, but you knew about other incidents with the other guy, the other music teacher [Jesus Concepcion]. So Martinez ended up being the fall guy because he couldn't prove that he told Levin.
[Rather than 2019, the story did, indeed, start “hitting the newspapers” in 2017, as this article in the New York Times provided an account consistent with the facts in Kayla’s interview.]
I: And Martinez, what role did he play, was he a principal?
A: He was a gym teacher.
I: So was he in a position of authority, was he an assistant principal also?
A: Just a gym teacher.
I: So Sara Martinez reported this to Mr. Martinez, who was a gym teacher, correct?
A: And to Mr. Levin.
I: You mentioned Mr. Corcoran, who was he?
A: Eventually, he was a principal, but most of the time, he was a math teacher.
I: Mr. Levin, was he at the school or was he away from the school as an administrator at that time?
A: He was at the school.
I: He was there?
A: He was there, every day.
I: And Mr. Corchran, again was . . .
A: He was a founding math teacher, and eventually he became a principal.
I: And how many students would you guess were in the fifth and sixth grade – I know you were young.
A: About 60.
I: About 30 and each grade?
A: Yeah.
I: Mr. Randall—let’s get back to him a bit. Did things change with Mr. Randall in terms of your relationship with him?
A: so, in the beginning it was about comfort and mentorship and counseling.
I: Right.
A: Eventually it became more. What Randall started to do very quickly when we were in the sixth grade was pit girls against one another. He really pitted friends against friends. We were always pitted against one another—about who was his favorite. It was no secret that Randall gave us money, gave us a special privileges, and there was favoritism for us over everyone else, which wasn’t cool.
I: You would be competing for his attention, perhaps?
A: Attention and affection, yeah.
I: Okay.
A: and he would tell people, these are my faves. But he would also tell people that we were sexy and that we had nice shapes, and again, we were 11. One thing that was unique about Kipp is that we had access to the teachers 24/7, and they had access to us. Because it was required that we add our teachers’ phone numbers, so, Mr. Randall always had access to us. And it could be seven or 8 o'clock at night, then I could call Mr. Randall and say hey, I need money, and he would, wherever he was, stop by and give me money if I wanted McDonalds or food or whatever.
And that would never fly in 2024, like why is a grown man visiting a child on her side of town to give her money. That’s grooming, right?
I: Right.
A: I say all of that to say that what was counseling initially turned into grooming eventually. So by the time that seventh grade happened, it was just full-on, more, than it should have been.
I: Right.
A: and it was always under the guise of access because KIPP gave you access.
I: do you feel like it was happening to more people than just you and your close circle of friends?
A: I only know about girls from my class. I don't know who else. Actually, one girl said that Mr. Randall raped her when she was a teenager. She said he literally raped her, and when you get into the later classes, I don’t know what was Randall and what was Concepcion. And then I’m told there were a bunch of people it happened to who choose to say nothing at all. They don't even want the drama of putting their names out there and that type of thing. So it was rampant, it was very rampant.
I: Okay. Now this Mr. Concepcion – when did he enter into the picture?
A: Now, that was my eighth grade year, and I feel like that's when he started to come in part time. What was unique about Concepcion, Randall was Concepcion’s six grade violin teacher.
I: So Randall was his mentor sort of?
A: Yeah, definitely. And Randall brought Concepcion into KIPP.
I: I see. Uh, so that was about when you were in the eighth grade?
A: Yeah.
I: So you were at KIPP from _____ to _____. And you went to private school after that?
A: I did.
I: And how did that come about?
A: Um, so we didn't have KIPP high schools yet. And so boarding schools, private schools, and Catholic schools were the thing. And so I applied and I got in.
I: Okay. Let’s talk a little bit more about Mr. Concepcion. He came when you were in the eighth grade, and what was your relationship with Mr. Concepcion?
A: I stayed away from him. I thought he was completely creepy. Like he used to lick his lips and look at me and told me ‘I've heard about you’. I could take care of you. And I said, no, I’m good. And then I went away to high school, and I never spoke to him again.
I: Oh wow. Now did you know of other girls who were victimized or . . . by Mr. Concepcion?
A: Yeah, tons. They talk about it all the time online. But they are younger than me, so by the time all of this stuff was happening, I was gone.
I: Uh huh. So Mr. Concepcion was a replacement for Mr. Randall?
A: Yeah.
I: And what happened to Randall? Is he still alive?
A: He died around Christmas [of 2023] from cancer.
I: Okay. Now after leaving KIPP, did you have any contact with him?
A: Yeah, he uh, called me every year on my birthday, I called him every year on his birthday, Father's Day, and Christmas.
I: Um. So it was only fairly recently that this person asked you the question that caused your internal investigation in terms of how you would react if your children were going to a school like that. So that happened about two years ago?
A: I want to say it happened somewhere around 2019 or 2020.
I: Okay, so until that time you had really not viewed it as you came to view it?
A: I just never processed it—it was just something that happened in my past . . .
I: Right.
A: You know—it was what it was.
I: Have you sought counseling since then?
A: For him? For him specifically, no. I’ve had counseling for other things, but again, the older I get, I’m like hmm, I wonder if the attraction I have for older men is because of the relationship I had with Randall. And if these relationships I've had with older men have always been based on me needing them and dependent on them, because I was very dependent on Randall. You just, as you get older you just begin to see patterns, right? So I've spoken with my therapist about the men that I've been with especially bc of things I experienced in my youth, but never about Randall specifically.
I: I’m going to play devil’s advocate, here, a little bit, if I may: if someone read your story, and that person was associated with KIPP, and they said, well obviously, this was just a disgruntled student who had a bad experience at KIPP, what would you say?
A: I think I had one of the best experiences at KIPP. I think my story is one that was used often at KIPP as someone who came from my bad parenting situation—KIPP came in and saved the day—this person went to private school, college, has advanced degrees, is a homeowner. So quintessentially, I am the KIPP story.
I’m not bitter. In fact, I started the story with ‘I love KIPP. KIPP is, I wouldn’t send my children there, but KIPP is very near and dear to my heart because my outcome wasn’t negative. I had bad experiences, but my outcome was overwhelmingly positive. But just because my outcome was overwhelmingly positive, that does not mean that I am endorsing what was bad and illegal while I was there.
I: So why wouldn’t you send your children to KIPP?
A: Well, one, KIPP is for children who come from a certain type of background, and my kids don’t—we’re not even zoned for KIPP. We live in the suburbs. And then, two, well, that’s really it. My kids are so, they’re fine. So there are certain kids out there who needed KIPP. I needed KIPP. There are kids who need KIPP, and my kids just don’t need KIPP.
I: Uh huh. What kind of kid needs KIPP?
A: Typically, kids who come from impoverished backgrounds who need structure, who need guidance, who really need to understand there’s something outside those walls at KIPP and something outside those proverbial walls wherever they are, right? So there are people who grow up socioeconomically impoverished, who don’t know there is something bigger and better out there. And KIPP really brings that vision to people, to let them know there is something bigger and better out there, and these are the tools to get to it.
I: Okay. You know, there’s a substantial amount of research that shows between 50 and 70 percent of students who start 5th grade at KIPP don’t finish 8th grade at KIPP. Why do you think that is?
A: When was that statistic in play? Was that in play when I was at KIPP, or when I was a teenager, or in my twenties.
I: I can’t point you directly to the research, but I can find it for you. Probably around 2008 to 2012 when the research was done.
SRI conducted and published a study in 2008 (original study here) that found a 55% attrition rate among KIPP students(grades 5-8) in four San Francisco Bay Area KIPP schools. Similar attrition rates were found in a Western Michigan University study published in 2011 (see original study here).
A: Well, if it was back then, then it was because you got kicked out of KIPP if your grades were not up to par. It was the grades that helped KIPP get their funding, right? So if you're someone who had behavioral issues . . . like half of my class that was with me in fifth grade didn't make it to sixth grade. In 5th grade were two classes, and in 6th grade we were one. So everyone got put out who had behavioral issues or who made it hard for KIPP to do their job. By what time we got to seventh grade we were back to two classes again – they brought students from IS 166 where Randall was from. We had the smart class and the class that clearly wasn't so smart.
So it wasn't like KIPP took geniuses and tried to pass them through, but if you had behavioral issues, you are definitely put out of KIPP.
I: So one thing that KIPP likes to talk about or brag about is there very low suspension rate. So if they're not suspending kids or expelling kids, how did these kids end up out of school if they didn’t want them there?
A: Because you had in-school suspension. And that must be what they’re not reporting. I was on in-school suspension almost every day, but also, I have the top grades in my class, right? So you weren't going to put me out.
Yeah, KIPP never suspended anyone—everybody just got put on in-school suspension, which they called administrative punishment.
I: So, when Mr. Levin heard Mr. Randall make the inappropriate remarks that you talked about, and he react?
A: He would just maybe walk away. It's almost like it was a good old boys club. And also Mr. Randall wasn't crazy, he wouldn't say ‘I want to fuck you’ in front of Mr. Levin, right? But he would make comments about our bodies for the bodies of our mothers, you know, like ‘I can understand how grown men would be attracted to you’. He would say those types of things, but you also have to remember, and I don't know, I feel conflicted about saying this, Levin was about 25 or 26 at this time.
I: Well, let's see, he was fresh out of Yale and Teach for America, and he and Feinberg started KIPP in 1994, so yeah.
A: So he was about 25 at the time—and this was in the 90s. This is what Levin said, and I hear him, but it doesn’t make it any more right. Yeah, he was 25 and it was the 90s, this was part of the times, so you didn’t say anything, but you [Levin] was a mandated reporter who had a duty to protect—and didn’t.
I: Yeah. Yes. Now, you used the the phrase ‘weird, twisted things’ when you were talking earlier, what do you mean by ‘weird twisted things’?
A: Can you give me more context about what I was talking about because I cannot—I remember saying it but I don't remember what I was talking about?
I: You were talking about the mental and emotional abuse of students and things that happened to students while they were at KIPP. And the phrase you used was ‘weird and twisted things.’
A: So just imagine that—we’re a bunch of young black kids and like oner half of us come from homes where our parents, uncle or aunt are crackheads, right? So just imagine the trauma of coming in on Halloween and you’re dressed as a ghost and Mr. Randall is dressed as a crackhead. And no one said anything about it. Or imagine being treated vastly different because you are dark skinned.
We had one girl named ______, and she was treated terribly. Very dark, very much African features. _______ accidentally left her violin on the bus. Randall embarrassed the fuck out of her, not in front of the whole class, but in front of the whole school every chance he got. And ______was very poor—made her pay back, I think, five or ten dollars at a time until she graduated. And made it known that she was poor, pathetic, because she couldn’t pay back—like he made her feel terrible.
It was known, and in the letter I sent you from Levin [https://www.kipp.org/news/a-letter-from-dave-levin-to-kipp-alumni/], he references the fact that colorism was a thing and apologized for it. And it was. Randall definitely did not like dark skinned and unattractive females at all, and he treated them differently. But I think that everyone treated them differently. The white teachers treated them differently.
We have another student by the name of ________ ________ who ended up getting put out of KIPP. He was treated terribly. Like the white teachers were not nice. I don't think they were nice to me either, but I was smart, so I got away with a little bit more.
I: Your teachers, what were they like, white, black, old, young?
A:They were all young with the exception of Randall and Myers. And mostly white. And they were terrible, because I could not relate to the student body that they were teaching. And I remember them telling me that I couldn't get into ________ [private high school that Kayla would graduate from]. And I did. I remember them, always having this narrative about me, that I would get pregnant when I was young, and drop out of high school, and I was bad, and that didn’t happen. And I got into ________.
One interesting thing about KIPP teachers, if you notice, after all this sexual assault stuff started to hit the fan, either people started getting promoted outside of principal by being given really high-paying jobs or they got removed from KIPP Academy. So they either got really high-paying jobs outside of Kipp Academy, like at the KIPP Foundation or at Corporate or whatever, or they started getting consulting gigs. When things started going awry, there was a lot of movement in KIPP, a lot of promotions.
I: So Randall became an organizer of other orchestras at other KIPP schools around the country, right?
A: Yeah.
I: So he got to travel around the country, and girls all over were exposed to his behavior?
A: Yep. But I don’t know what he actually did, I can’t speak to that, but I know that he shouldn't of been exposed to a larger pool of students.
I: Right. It was sort of like he was rewarded in some way like these other teachers at the school who possibly knew what had occurred?
A: Right.
I: Okay. When you think about KIPP, what do you think about?
A: Um, I think of two things. One, I honestly think that KIPP saved my life. I have a deep appreciation for KIPP for setting me on a trajectory that I needed. I honestly feel that way. Um, on the other hand, KIPP was a very traumatizing experience.
I: On the sexual abuse angle, of course, but were there otherwise that it was traumatizing?
A: Those white teachers just were not nice. Not all of them, but I just did not have a good experience with the white teachers at KIPP.
I: And they were mostly white?
A: Yeah.
I: Did you have any black teachers?
A: Ms. Bernard. Ms. Bernard was like an angel. We loved Ms. Bernard.
I: What did she teach?
A: Language arts. she was awesome.
I: But the rest of the more white, young, essentially inexperienced?
A: Yeah.
I: And, uh, not nice?
A: No.
I: Are there other ways that it was traumatizing?
A: It was mostly just Randall, and Levin’s complacency in allowing Randall to do whatever he wanted. That’s what it was for me. So not was I not protected at home, but I spent all this time at KIPP, too, it was a fucked up situation there, too.
I: After high school, did you go to college?
A: I did. I went to college in ________.
I: A a lot of people do that. Did you feel like your dropping out was related to your experiences, your trauma, at KIPP?
A: I think emotionally I was just spent. I went to KIPP and had a lot of school, and I went to _______ and had a lot of school. I needed a fucking break. I was tired. That’s the best way that I could put it, I was tired and had no support, no mentor, I just gave up.
I: What should parents know about KIPP before they enroll their kids there—that KIPP doesn’t tell them?
A: Well, remember that no one knew anything about KIPP. KIPP was brand new. We we were among the first students of KIPP. Have you ever heard of the KIPP Commitment to Excellence form?
I: Yes, it’s sometimes referred to as a contract, right?
A: Yes, a contract. And it said every day we’re going to be on time, and be there from 7:15 until 5. And we commit to Saturdays. And we commit to summers. We commit to behaving. We commit to trusting KIPP teachers to kind of discipline us. It was interesting.
I: So all those things parents know ahead of time right?
A: Yeah. But parents don't know that Levin and especially Mr. Waxman would yell at us to the point that they were red and purple, and throw shit at us, scream at us, and belittle us, and tell us we’re going to grow up and be nothing—especially if we didn't go to college. That was part of the playbook, but not in the contract—the part that was absurd, the weird shit that was going on. And we were really abused. I don't think people really understand what it's like to have a teacher in your face like a jail warden yelling at you and cussing at you and throwing desks across the room. Like they had some real anger issues. If someone did that, to my child, they were going to jail.
I would never, ever—but our parents allowed it. Some parents would come to the school. I think Levin got punched in the face, I think Bernard got punched in the face. It happened a couple of times, apparently would say ‘not my kid, don’t even think about it.’
But a lot of us, especially they Hispanic children, for those of us who didn't live with our parents, who lived with grandparents or whatever, nobody was going to come to school and say shit because they were just happy that we were at KIPP most of the time.
I: I have heard similar stories from others. Do you remember what the offense that would cause such anger among KIPP teachers?
A: We were probably like talking.
I: Any offense was a large offense, right?
A: Any offense was a large offense—anytime you did not listen, fall in line, like you cannot beat children. But that’s why I have discipline now. I don’t know if it makes me a better parent or worse parent, because my kids are always, like, what the fuck, we can never make you happy. And I’m like ‘why can't you just do this correctly?’ And I really have to check myself. It’s like, no that’s not cool—I remember being their age and being treated like that, and that wasn’t good. But I also have an immense amount of self-control, um, I don’t know—I struggle with it when it comes to parenting.
I: So what do you hope to accomplish by sharing your story?
A: I think all of our stories are a very important part of the KIPP story, not as a way to splatter negativity against KIPP because, again, I love KIPP, and I'm appreciative of KIPP. I just get extremely triggered when I hear about KIPP or when I see KIPP—it’s a thing, it's really a thing in my life. And on a very high-level, I don't think Mr. Levin deserves to have a seat at the table at KIPP. The thing about his co-CEO, Feinberg, who got fired and no longer has a seat at the table, right?
[Allegations of sexual misconduct by Mike Feinberg, with both middle school students and teachers, led to Feinberg’s firing. A New York Times story on the matter here: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/22/us/kipp-sexual-misconduct-michael-feinberg.html?searchResultPosition=1]
I feel like, just because you didn't touch children, it doesn't mean that you didn't do something equally damaging, and I feel like he has been able to skate under the radar and not be held accountable. And there are literally dozens of people who are grown now, but children then, who are out there who were not protected by him, and he pretends he doesn't know a thing.
It would be one thing if he said out loud to the lawyers or whomever, ‘I fucked up, I fucked up’. If he told us that he was 25 years old, and it was the 90s, you know, really a sign of the times, but ‘I am sorry’ [Kayla’s emphasis]. But he has never been able to do that. And I think that ‘I’m sorry’ is a very powerful thing because that's what leads to forgiveness, right?
I mean, he didn't touch me and I know that he was 25 and I understand it was the 90s and I remember the 90s—a lot of things went on in the 90s that wouldn't go on now, but to see someone that I hold out as a father and that I have respect for, to never accept accountability, escape accountability, and throw someone under the bus and literally take away his whole livelihood, which was Martinez [former KIPP gym teacher], it sucks. It just sucks. And I think there’s a lot of power And I think him saying sorry and I fucked up—I should've protected you guys and didn’t—would go a long way. But to see him continue to have a seat at the table—I don't think he deserves it. I really don’t.
And I just wondered if this ever keeps him up at night. He knows—he knows that Randall used to drink—he knows that Randall would show up drunk at school, and Randall would get fresh with us. Like why would you allow a drunk man to be around us that got fresh with us—like he knew that was inappropriate. And I think a lot of us just suffer as adults. And there’s just no place to—like I can talk about in therapy until I’m blue in the face, I can get on my knees and pray to God about it I'm blue in the face, but nothing is ever going to make it better, unless he says ‘I am sorry—I fucked up.’
I: You would like to see some accountability?
A: Yes.
I: A quick sidebar here: Mr. Martinez was blamed, or he became the fall guy, when this began to surface, right? And he was fired?
A: Yeah.
I: Okay. And did the story go away at that point?
A: Yeah, the stories went away, all of a sudden, the articles disappeared in the newspapers—you can’t pull them up anymore. And all of a sudden, Sara Martinez went away. You just never heard from her again. She's not on social media, her number changed.
A: So what grade were you in when Mr. Martinez was fired?
A: I was grown, I was an adult.
I: Would you estimate what year it was?
A: 2018, 2019, somewhere in there. Let me check the letter. Here we go: 6-18-2020. Dave wrote a letter to the community-at-large.
[The letter referred to here is from David Levin to KIPP alumni, dated June 18, 2020. The letter may be accessed here: https://www.kipp.org/news/a-letter-from-dave-levin-to-kipp-alumni/]
I: So you would like to achieve some kind of accountability here and to hear David Levin say that he is sorry, which is totally understandable and realistic desire, wish, hope. Can you talk about how KIPP has affected your life?
A: I think that KIPP has impacted my my ability to connect with men in a way that is unhealthy. And I have been working very hard to unpack that. Like I have to get away from dating older men because that is what I'm used to, and that is what I was groomed to do, right? I have to get away from chasing men with money who will take care of me because, again, that’s what I was groomed to do, that is what I was used to.
Like a lot of the unhealthy behaviors and the way that I viewed myself sexually—I had to get away from that. I had to learn to love myself outside of that.
I: Yes. [long pause] Are there other ways?
A: That's the biggest one worth talking about. Our friendships were unhealthy at KIPP, especially in my class.
I: Can you say more about that?
A: A lot of colorism at KIPP, and you will see in that letter that Levin addresses that. But there was a lot of colorism and a lot of racism that KIPP.
I: Do you think there were other administrators besides Levin who knew [about Randall’s behavior with KIPP students]?
A: Yeah, definitely. Because Randall would literally sit in a chair in the hallway and make disgusting comments about us. And you had Corcoran and Myers right across the hall. You had Breen right across the hall. And he would make these comments in front of everyone. So when everything hit the fan, it was crazy for all of these teachers to say we didn't know. And it was like, well, he made comments to you guys. He made the comments out loud. These guys would just shake their heads when he made these comments, so what do you mean you didn't know?
Everyone's denial of it has been weird for us because we were all there. We all heard it.
I: And did Levin know?
A: Yes. When I say Levin knew, I want to make this clear – when I say everyone knew, they heard the comments he was making, and the comments were disgusting for 11, 12, 13, 14 year old girls. I'm not saying that anyone knew about the actual sexual assaults that were happening, but I think the grooming was clear. I think the sexual innuendo was clear. The fact that we all called him a dirty old man, teachers and students, was because he made these comments out loud all the time in front of everyone.
I: What was a typical comment?
A: He would make comments about our bodies. He would make comments about things that men like sexually. He would make comments about how his money gave him access to women. Stuff like that.
I: Do you remember times when Levin was present when he was making these kinds of comments?
A: All the time. This was something that happened daily. It wasn't like he was trying to hide it because he definitely did not. This wasn't something that happened once a week – we were in school with each other from seven in the morning to five at night, Saturdays and summer. And literally, Saturdays were nothing but orchestra, so we were around each other more than we were our families. Of course Levin was there, of course. Like I said, Levin, hides behind this ‘I was 25 years old when this happened, and you can't use a lens of what is appropriate in 2024 to view what happened then. But the standard is always been you have a duty to report, duty to protect, you're a mandated reporter, that has always been the same. But he will blame a lack of training and the time [that these events occurred].
I: Do you know if he has ever been confronted with this?
A: Yeah, Sara [Martinez, the student] confronted him. Sara definitely confronted him. Martinez [Mr. Martinez, the gym teacher] confronted him when he got fired for not reporting. And Martinez was like, but I told you. And so they said, do you have any emails? Can you prove it? And he couldn’t.
I: So Sara Martinez sort of disappeared after that, I believe you said.
A: Yeah.
I: So you have no idea where she might be now?
A: Nope.
I: So Sara confronted Levin when she left KIPP?
A: It's my understanding she started confronting him about her 10th grade year, when it started to impact her immensely. So let’s see, 10th grade would have been 20__. So from about 20__ to about 2019. She kept nagging a KIPP and nagging at KIPP and nagging at KIPP, and going to the Daily News and do whatever newspaper would listen in New York, and making it a big deal, and blowing it up, until eventually it just went away.
[The New York Times carried the story of the findings of an investigation in 2017 (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/20/nyregion/kipp-nyc-charter-schools-debevoise-sex-abuse-report.html). So Sara Martinez was trying to get acknowledgement that she had been sexually assaulted by a KIPP teacher for over a decade].
I: And you haven't seen her appear on social media or anywhere since about 2019?
A: No.
I: Okay. Do you know if Levin or if any other teacher at the school had knowledge of Randall’s intoxication?
A: Yeah, because Levin had to send him home sometimes. Sometimes he would be so intoxicated that he would have to be sent home. But if there was a performance coming up, or if there were donors in the buildings—if there were donors in the building, he couldn’t be there intoxicated. And the reason I know this is that Randall told me personally. But yeah, everyone knew. Do you know why it wasn’t a secret? He had a bottle of Johnny Walker Black on the counter and the classroom. He would do shots. After class, he would say, ‘do you want to do a shot—have you ever had liquor before?’
I: Oh, wow. Wow. Did Randall have anything to do with Concepcion getting the job at KIPP? Do you have any knowledge of that?
A: Yes, absolutely. Randall brought Concepcion’s to KIPP.
I: So when Randall left Concepcion took his position, right?
A: They were both there at the same time. They were both there my ______ grade year. And it was crazy when Concepcion was there. Because when Concepcion came, it was clear the Randall told him about me. He tried me, and I told him, like, don’t try me. And what was outrageous about Concepcion is that Concepcion would bring his mistress to the orchestra room. Concepcion would talk about sex in front of us, like him having sex with all these other women, the fact that he had a lot of money, he could have sex with all these women—this is what happened during orchestra rehearsal. Clear as day, and no one said a thing because we had a really good orchestra.
Are you a former student or teacher eager to share your KIPP story (anonymously if you so choose) about Charlie Randall or his protege and now-convicted child sexual abuser, Jesus Concepcion? If you would like to share your story, please contact me via email: ontogenyx@gmail.com
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